December 3, 2011

Autogynephiliacs Love Estrogen

I am going to share another story from a another male to female crosssdreamer  with you.  She (or he?) wants to remain anonymous, so I am going to call her Moon.

The moon has become a transgender symbol for me. It is masculine in the Germanic languages and feminine in the Latin once. Furthermore, its shifting phases/faces seems to indicate a more flexible approach to gender.

Moon has been experimenting with hormones, which have had a significant effect on how other people see her. The question is: Should she go all the way?

In this text "autogynephilia" [AGP] is used as a synonym for male to female crossdreaming (i.e. a man's arousal from imagining himself having a female body), and not necessarily for the autogynephilia theory per se.

Autogynephiliacs Love Estrogen

By Moon

So what happens when a guy who has spent pretty much his whole life fantasising about being a female takes female hormones? And what if that male person feels that they have always been more transsexual inclined, but feels that there is a driving force behind the feelings of wanting to be female which calls itself autogynephilia. How does he know what he is?

Is he a transsexual who would benefit from transition or a transsexual wanabee with some bizarre condition that mimics the symptoms that makes him feel he is a transsexual? Or is he someone who is making a big deal out of his own little perversion?

That person is me in a nutshell. I want to be as frank as I can be about my own experience with hormones and their effect on me. I have decided to publish this anonymously which is why I have asked Jack to publish this on his own blog.

Before anyone asks I have been through the counselling process and have come away not really any the wiser as to what I am. My conclusion is that you have to help yourself find out who and what you are, no one is going to tell you. The last period of counselling allowed me to take hormones 'legally' for the first time. Before this I had tried using hormones on my own for short periods.

So why do I feel the need for hormones? Well, the desire for feminisation is very strong indeed and occupies my thoughts and causes me frustration when I face the reality of life. Crossdressing helps with creating a image of a female but it is rather limiting. There is a great need to make it more 'real'. 

 The sexual aspect has always evolved around being identified as a woman in my fantasies. The sexual component seems to be a way of making the fantasy real for a short time. After all there is perhaps no better emotional outlet to use if you can only takes things up to a point. The masturbation allows you to suspend the disbelief for a short while. I have always had the sexual component tied in with my gender thoughts ever since I was a small child. I have been masturbating from first memories too. So I'm not like others who say their sexuality reared its head in their teen years.

After a few days of starting hormones I felt a great sense of relief, a positive sense of well being and the feeling that I was at last dealing with my problem. I was put on a low dose (Estraderm TTS 50 patches) which I was happy with, as the dose given was making me feel much better in myself. I felt more like me. My therapist told me I was feeling better as my thought patterns were now able to flow freely and be processed better with the introduction of estrogen into my system. It was a sign that my brain wiring was actually feminine. How true this is, is another matter.

The first year continued like this. I felt all round very happy. I felt in control. My fantasies still continued but without the bad feelings of guilt and shame I had always associated with them. I was able to masturbate when I wanted to and it was much more enjoyable too. Orgasm was a little harder to achieve but everything was better.

I was not actually transitioning in the gender role I was still me. I came to the conclusion that the need for a transition was not a priority and that I had found a way of being happy. Why did I need to turn my life upside down and start dressing full time as a female? The idea was there and I would have liked to, but I felt I had to be realistic with what could be achieved.

From about a year in with hormones I started experiencing odd glances, side ways looks from people when I walked down the street. I began to feel self conscious, very much like what I felt in my teenage years. Why did I receive such looks from strangers? Was I simply imagining it? Was it paranoia? What this reaction made me realise was that I had perhaps started to loose the protective 'testosterone shield' which makes you deal and respond to stress better than females. I was still my everyday male self in my day to day life, although I had grown my hair a lot longer as I felt that the longer hair was more in tune with the person I felt inside.

Up to this point I always believed that to pass as a female I would have to spend an hour or so with make-up and fussing with presentation. I had spent years going to tranny clubs so there was always the association that to be taken as female you have to dress as one and wear makeup. I was still presenting as a male or perhaps as a more relaxed male with longish hair. So I was very surprised that in casual exchanges in shops or markets I was being called madame, or she. 

The first time this happened I could not get over how a person could take me as being a woman and I was presenting as a male. I made no attempt with adjusting my voice or anything like that as I was just being me. This type of situation started to occur more frequently and I made the note that it was non English people who were mistaking me for female. 

As time wore on I say about a half of communications with strangers resulted with them thinking I was female. Sometimes the word 'she, miss, madame' were not used but it would be something else that would give it away. Men would smile at me if I passed them on the street, or the verbal exchange may result in some sort of phrase such as 'Guys can multi-task too, you know', was one reply I had back from a chap who would only say something like this if he thought I was female.

I was just being myself. There was no change in my attitude or mannerisms, yet every now and then it would be made known to me that I was being taken as a female. These were always short exchanges, such as purchasing something in a shop or walking past someone wanting to do a street survey, or charity box holder. Close friends who had not seen me in a while but knew of what I was doing told me how girly I was starting to look. Yet I did not see this woman emerging from myself, she seemed invisible to myself but easily seen by others. I was still me, or was I?

As I was growing my hair the lady hairdresser I had been going to for some time seemed to automatically give me a female hair style each time I visited. I enjoyed this and worked up to having the full works of hair coloring and highlights on each visit. She would ask me how my 'partner' was, so I guess she thought I had a boyfriend. My sexual attraction had always been for females.

I started to feel as if the train I was on was starting to run a little bit too fast for my liking.Yet I held on and continued as I felt very happy, if a little paranoid.

Orgasm became harder to achieve, but I was able to maintain my pleasure at the cliff edge before falling off, for as long as I wanted to. Sexual experience became much more of a whole body experience, rather than a penis thing. My nipples became a source of masturbation and could have easily replaced what pleasures I had known with my penis, but that still worked and gave me pleasure. 

I was experiencing I guess what I had always wanted to experience. I would also hide my penis away and simply masturbate using by nipples and caressing my body. I would pretend in my mind that I had a vagina and was really a woman, it was wonderful. I also experienced genuine feelings of wanting to be rid of my penis. I had not experienced this before and realised this was my brain's reaction to its sense of what my body was and should be now with the wash of estrogen's within me. Men also became a source of attraction and started to replace the AGP sexuality that I had always known. To really feel like a female - yet this forbidden pleasure that I had so wanted was somewhat scary.

The thing I wanted and had fantasied about the most was actually happening to me. People were taking me as a female with no effort on my part (I was still dressing as a guy) and I was enjoying a sexuality that was 100 times better than pre hormones. But obtaining this prize did frighten me. I can't explain why or put into words why this was so.

So what did I do? I pulled the plug an stopped taking the hormones at around the two year mark.

A year later many physical and mental traits have remained. I don't get taken as a female day to day anymore. I do not see the difference between myself then and to the way I am now. But people's reaction and response have changed back. I do still get the odd look or second glance but it is not so often now. Part of me is sad at what I have lost, but I treasure the mental bits that have been left within me such as the exposure to a new form of sexuality beyond AGP which in part still remains.

So what about now? - Well I still want to be female and would like to start up again with the hormones, but the fear of the unknown frightens me. Would I be happy or would I be a regretter. So confusing and I still don't have any answers or know what to do.

55 comments:

Randi said...

This story really rings true for me. My hormone of choice is Oestrogel. I started out with "just a dab" here and there.

It made me comfortable with my body for the first time in a long while.

It's been nearly 3 years and I have no urge to stop, even though I could fill a 46B bra. I smile a lot now and people smile back.

As Moon mentioned, erections are rare now, but a little breast massage will put me in a state of bliss, with no urgency to end it with an orgasm.

I take comfort in knowing that my feminization will never completely reverse, even if I go off estrogen. My body will be partly female for all time now. I feel good about that.

Panigrahi said...

"Sexual experience became much more of a whole body experience, rather than a penis thing. My nipples became a source of masturbation and could have easily replaced what pleasures I had known with my penis, but that still worked and gave me pleasure."

I don't think these kinds of sexual pleasures reflect whether a person is feminine gendered. Most men (even if not admitting it publicly) may have these feelings of pleasure from nipples and all, including pleasure of receptive roles in sex without using penis.
Active role in sex using penis is a masculine gender role and so if a male does not always like sex with penis,it does not show anything of his level of real masculinity.
I still don't understand why most 'crossdreamers' describe themselves with these sexual roles. Most likely they are sexually promiscuous men and have due to cultural norms, equated this with 'passive femininity'.
If they were truly transsexual on the other hand, they would know they were a raw female even without these sexual urges.
I knew my natural female self ever since a kid, and I put on puberty blockers well before so that I would not develop a masculine self. That is what constitutes a real woman.

belinda said...

Moon's letter very much reflects my own experience as someone who has taken estrogen now for a number of years, but has not considered myself to be a transitioning transexual. I am sure there are quite a number of us out there now that estrogen has gotten much easier to obtain.

Jack Molay said...

@Panigrahi

"I knew my natural female self ever since a kid, and I put on puberty blockers well before so that I would not develop a masculine self. That is what constitutes a real woman."

If that is the case, a majority of transwomen cannot be considered "real women", as research shows that most of them go through a long period of denial and self discovery before accepting their female self.

I am not going to dismiss their experience of being women, which means that I cannot dismiss the idea that male to female crossdreamers can be "real women" either.

The sexual urges make no difference in this respect, as you will find similar sexual urges in many "real women".

Panigrahi said...

Jack,
I very much knew you would argue with me about this very soon. This is because you are trying to defend the non-trassexual people who love to so much define themselves under a hypothetical 'transgender' umbrella.

However, transgenders are not real women because they have borrowed and also fetishized stereotypical aspects of femininity (or masculinity in case of tomboys),from movies, sops and operas.
Tell me one reason why I should see your case as that of a real woman?

I do not deny that there are varying degrees of "femininity" and "masculinity" within the two genders, but these LEARNED QUALITIES do not prove there are more than two genders, or even that gender exists along a spectrum. At the end of the day, cross-dressing *for cross-dressers* is mimicry for sexual (or some other type of) gratification, flaboyance and being highly 'stylish' fops.

Question: why do cross-dressers in America always dress like the females of our society? Why don't they want to wear the burqa or hijab worn by Muslim women? Why don't they want to wear the salwar kameez or sari of women in India, or the polleras and monteras of Peruvian women? All these garments are expressions of femininity in their respective cultures, and curiously, are the clothes desired by cross-dressers IN those respective cultures. The answer is that cross-dressers are not expressing innate femininity, they are copying what they see in the women around them, and utilizing it to create a heightened state of dopamine, either to feel good, or increase their sexual arousal, or to feel high in some kind of status. It's really that simple.

Panigrahi said...

"If that is the case, a majority of transwomen cannot be considered "real women", as research shows that most of them go through a long period of denial and self discovery before accepting their female self."

But those transwomen you are describing about are not fops or stylish crossdressers. Neither do they always borrow stereotypical hyperfeminine images. Many rather try to hide their natural femininity for a long time by acting straight or masculine till they finally give it up.

If crossdressers proudly call themselves as 'men' and at the same time dance as female disco babes, it is a sure case of mimicry rather than anything innate.

Randi said...

@Panigrahi

I, like many AGP folks, know that I am male. I wish I were female, but am not so deluded as to believe I actually am female.

I realize that no hormone treatment, surgery, counseling, or change of clothing wil make me a woman.

I've got smooth skin, and some really great boobs, but male I was born, and male I will always be.

I don't crossdress and nether does Jack Molay.

Perhaps you need to find some other group of people to rail against.

Regards, Randi

Anonymous said...

@Panigrahi:

You're contradicting your earlier definition of "what constitutes a real woman", which you previously suggested as "knew [one's] natural female self ever since a kid" and "put on puberty blockers".

Not to be overly picky, but whether one is able to just "put on puberty blockers" as you said (or indeed begin HRT later) doesn't merely depend on the individual's self-identification, but also on how caretakers and gatekeepers handle it and on whether one does have the privilege of being able to pay for such treatment, either oneself or using some form of insurance.

And then, you stated that you "put on puberty blockers well before so that [you] would not develop a masculine self" which is misleadingly phrased at best and nonsense at worst.

Anonymous said...

I seem to have a story that directly relates...

I have always wanted to be a woman, but especially sexually. I won't bore you with the AG details... Suffice to say I started transitioning from male-to-female in the late 90's. At the time I explained my concerns of being AG and transitioning to my therapist, but he didn't see it as problematic. It probably didn't hurt that I was small, attractive, and extremely passable. I think those aspects "qualified me" in their books... almost no matter what I said in session. Craziness.

Anyway, I transitioned and lived for almost a decade in the female role. It was great in many ways (I was "present" during sex with a partner instead of locked in my own fantasy world! I was seen as attractive and enjoyed the attention from both men and women. I felt a certain ease in the daily feminine role instead of trying and failing to measure up to the masculine.), but terrible in others (Expense of transition. SRS is final. Most TS's I know have severe lifelong issues -- even the ones who "pass" completely. As you age, the need for FFS and other surgeries becomes a reality if you want to stay on the feminine side of the tracks. Being a female can be frightening -- I was in two attempted rapes. I resented having to be tied to an endo and pills forever. I found that it was hard to have true girlfriends because they look at you differently than other women... even when they say they don't. Etc.)... and ultimately I de-transitioned.

Now, years later I'm on hormones again. It took years for the AG to return, but when it did (I suspect when my T levels returned to normal pre-transition levels), I knew that I had to deal with this somehow... and forever...

I'm hoping that I can skirt the issue between genders... living work as male and everything else as female. I understand this is a very limited and difficult existance (and possibly not fulfilling), but I have no choice. No therapist has shown me a way to get rid of AG... and years of willpower and denial made me angry and almost suicidal, so...

My hope is that I can continue living a limited female role until I'm old enough that I no longer pass and/or my need to express myself sexually has diminished to where I no longer need to be a girl. Will that happen? I can't say... maybe... we'll see...

Jack Molay said...

@Panigrahi

"At the end of the day, cross-dressing *for cross-dressers* is mimicry for sexual (or some other type of) gratification, flaboyance and being highly 'stylish' fops. "

I am sorry repeating insulting cliches is not an argument. I know from my own life and from the life of other crossdreamers, that crossdreaming can be much more than this. Many crossdreamers are truly gender dysphoric to the point of suicidal. And please note, I am NOT a crossdresser, so all your arguments about clothing makes no sense to me.

"Question: why do cross-dressers in America always dress like the females of our society? Why don't they want to wear the burqa or hijab worn by Muslim women? "

For the same reason as American women dress up as American women to express their femininity. The crossdressing is just another way of expressing a female identity or a female side of an identity. Others write stories, take part in role playing in Second Life and so on.

The reason some crossdresser may appear "over the top" when it comes to clothing, is partly because this is their only way of expressing their inner woman and partly because they lack the years of training in dressing, make-up and mannerisms XX girls get.

Do not use this against them.

Please also remember that most crossdressers crossdress at home. You have not seen them, and have therefore not basis for generalizing in the way you do.

Jack Molay said...

@Anonymous

Thank you for sharing your story. This is important.

If I understand you correctly the crossdreaming fantasies disappeared when you lived as a woman, and then reappeared again when you tried to live as a man again.

Do you think this is your female self trying to find a way of expressing herself?

Panigrahi said...

"I am sorry repeating insulting cliches is not an argument. I know from my own life and from the life of other crossdreamers, that crossdreaming can be much more than this. Many crossdreamers are truly gender dysphoric to the point of suicidal. And please note, I am NOT a crossdresser, so all your arguments about clothing makes no sense to me."

Then what are you? What really is the point you are trying to make? I find most of your posts as well as many other tg erotica tales full of themes that just is about submissive sexuality, sex, sex and more sex. Do they even talk of anything outside sex?
Oh please, a man can be submissive as well and still be a man, nothing new.

Anonymous said...

First, Panigrahi... is this a pissing contest? It seems so from your posts. Very male in my book. There are people here with all different issues... some sex and fetish... some GID... and probably some just having severe social issues... Not everyone is the same, and having lived a lot of my adult life as a woman, I really tire of people attacking others in order to reaffirm their own transitions. Playground mentality. If I've misread you, I'm sorry, but the tone of your posts has made it impossible to read them or care.

Second, Jack... Transitioning from male to female alleviated many of the symptoms of AG. In my mind, this is why many with AG find transition as the answer to their prayers... up to a point. They wish to be female sexually... transitioning lets them become what they need sexually... but ultimately the hormone which has pushed them into this corner (testosterone) becomes weakened... the very element pushing the need for femininization is cut off... and without this hormone, the need for transition becomes cloudy... the meaning of their entire sex life becomes cloudy... the reason for their feminization becomes uncertain... and they feel lost.

IMHO, most people who transition m-t-f are in this boat. Most people who transition are AG and convince themselves of an identity issue. In fact, they have a sexual development (psychological) issue and not an identity issue.

So... Yes, after I de-transitioned, it took my system many, many years to regulate hormones. For years I was asexual and had no AG. In fact, I thought I was cured. Then...

I noticed my forehead was getting greasy... I was getting more aggressive... I was having sex dreams again... and getting aroused. I knew my T level was rising after all those years dormant... and that's when the AG started to return. I was really horrified. As a child I'd prayed that God would release me of these thoughts. I thought he'd answered my prayers... but now learned differently.

I wanted to run back to transition, but fought it -- I'd learned too much of the reality of transition to do it again, but with no cure for AG, how could I deal with it?

For me, I looked at what I needed most... to be seen as female on a casual social level and sexually... and this is where I hope to keep it. I choose not to have SRS and change my documentation (what a nightmare it was to change back last time!), but to come to terms with being an extremely feminine male (tg).

To this day I really wish there was a cure to this. More than female, I really just want to be "normal."

Anonymous said...

de-transitioned anonymous: could you please describe how you manage to keep your inner balance? I have similar thoughts about the futility of transitioning (without the experience of it), and I'd be really interested on your day-to-day life, "rituals", social experience, family and friends, ...

Cheryl Sussex said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cheryl Sussex said...

@Anonymous


"I seem to have a story that directly relates...

I have always wanted to be a woman, but especially sexually. I won't bore you with the AG details... Suffice to say I started transitioning from male-to-female in the late 90's. At the time I explained my concerns of being AG and transitioning to my therapist, but he didn't see it as problematic."


Thank you so much for your story. There are so few examples of AGP & transition out there, and so few willing to talk and share. Your experience is very important and would go a long way to help others who have the AGP condition. I would very much like to hear more from you and your story. I very much identify with what you have said. So much rings true for me too. Why not join up at crossdreamlife.com there are so many others out there who would benefit from your first hand experiences. Take care x

Cheryl Sussex said...

@Anonymous

"My hope is that I can continue living a limited female role until I'm old enough that I no longer pass and/or my need to express myself sexually has diminished to where I no longer need to be a girl. Will that happen? I can't say... maybe... we'll see..."

When you where a full time woman you said the estrogen took the AGP feelings and turned them into more normally focused sexualised feelings. The dose of estrogen you were on during this time was it the full transition dose?

Today you are now taking estrogen again to curb the AGP whilst you are working as a male. Is this the same full on dose or at a lower strength?

Can I ask how old you are?

How do others react to you in your working life as a male? I take it the feminisation would have been taken to the highest point (except for SRS) as far as your appearance goes?

Do you feel that the driving force of AGP has pushed you through a variety of levels of feminisation? Almost like a person who needed a bigger fix to obtain the AGP reward and it then just took over to the extent that actually living as a female satisfied the AGP?

When you de-transitioned was this because AGP was not there any more so there was no push or need to be a woman any more? Or... was it more because of the social aspects of life as a woman.

You say that AGP disappeared for many years until your T levels returned. So as when you were back as a male with no AGP and low T levels and no estrogen where you happy and were you able to experience a sexuality?

Sorry for all the questions, but I feel I could learn a lot from your own experience.

Take care x

Anonymous said...

Wow, a lot of questions! But that's why I came here... as much to sort out my needs as to relate my experiences in hopes that they might help...

I am in my late 30's. I first started a transition mtf when I was 18. After taking hormones (self procured and administered) for about a year at college, I discontinued everything for fear that my family would abandon me; they knew I crossdressed while in high school and were none-too-happy about it (very religious household). Living on my own 8 years later, the pressures of masculinity were mounting and I came out to all of my friends as a crossdresser. At this time I was exploring my feelings and trying to figure out if I was only AG or if I was truly transsexual. Shortly after going out into public "dressed," I began therapy and hormones. I'd read some basic literature on AG and brought this to my therapist, but he didn't know much about it and discounted the sexual component as an issue counter to transition; in fact, from my demeanor, size, and relative attractiveness as a female, I was often "used" as an example/role model for new transitioners.

Anonymous said...

I lived and worked as a woman for many years. I dated men (horrible experiences coming out to men who didn't know my past) and women, but hated "coming out" to people so much that I tended to stay solitary most often. Many of my pre-transition friends were supportive "from a distance" -- choosing cards and calls over getting together face-to-face. The few new female friends I made often ended up competing with me regarding looks even while I envied their having been born female without question. Suffice to say I would never come out to them and our friendships didn't become as close as I wanted or needed. So, in the long run I transitioned to be a woman and become a part of society -- minus the old and terrible secret of AG which had kept me prisoner -- and now was a woman who still couldn't become a part of society because of my new secret -- I was born male. In the end, I chose to return to a male life because I saw that both existences were less than what I wanted... but one took a lot less money, time, effort, and social stigma. That's why I detransitioned.

Now, years later, I am returning to a more feminine life, but I have self-imposed limits. I'd like to think I can use my past experience to create a better startegy for dealing with my AG than full transition. I also have many experiences as a female which have shown me the usefulness of the masculine role -- there is nothing scarier that a man trying to force you into sex while wearing heals and a small dress (the vulnerability of being female often frightened me). In AG many feel empowerment sexually in the feminine role, but in reality it's quite the opposite.

As far as hormones...

I took many different estrogens, progesterones and androgen blockers over the years. I was on "full doses" for a long time. Started with pills and then injections and finally pellet implants. The doseages and applications obviously changed radically. With pellets I remember another endo saying my levels were near to an expecting mother (not the greatest thing I've since found!).

At this point I am on 2mg estradiol daily and a low dose of spiro.

If I were to guess, Spiro would probably be the drug that I would say alleviated AG issues most during transition. My belief is that T heightens the intensity of AG and anything that lowers T would assist management of the problem.

My gf is understanding and doesn't have issue with me being feminine. That has saved me... and allowed me to find a place internally (and in my skin) that I can live with.

Anonymous said...

Professionally, I am in an artistic industry that's based more on creative output than my external image. Transitioning publicly (in the past) in this industry did initially hinder my career, but I'm rebuilding it slowly... and this time I am not "coming out" to everyone; my private life as a woman is my own business so-to-speak.

Lastly, a few thoughts on AG...

I believe it is a "misfiring" of sexual development and without straight talk (with oneself) and deep reflect, the need to feminize can become overwhelming (I would argue that most TSs are indeed AG... and I've known HUNDREDS). AG does show itself as an addiction... and has to be dealt with in some way. AG does not (in my humble experience) qualify someone for a "good" transition; AG can mimic a true identity disorder (and on rare instances accompany GID), but usually it is simply a sexual issue that can get out of control if not kept in check.

So, by taking hormones and living 1/2 as female am I keeping AG in check or simply feeding an addiction little at a time? Well, for me I enjoy some things as male and some things as female, but I refuse to be seen as a man-in-a-dress (vain of me, I know), so I use hormones to that end. My personaluty and demeanor naturally are rather non-gendered so I'm not going against the grain in that matter. So, my biggest battle is reminding myself of the truths I found through transition and keeping my current life (where I might be considered a "transgenderist") in check.

My gf is understanding and doesn't have issue with me being feminine. That has saved me... and allowed me to find a place internally (and in my skin) that I can live with.

Professionally, I am in an artistic industry that's based more on creative output than my external image. Transitioning publicly (in the past) in this industry did initially hinder my career, but I'm rebuilding it slowly... and this time I am not "coming out" to everyone; my private life as a woman is my own business so-to-speak.

Lastly, a few thoughts on AG...

I believe it is a "misfiring" of sexual development and without straight talk (with oneself) and deep reflect, the need to feminize can become overwhelming (I would argue that most TSs are indeed AG... and I've known HUNDREDS). AG does show itself as an addiction... and has to be dealt with in some way. AG does not (in my humble experience) qualify someone for a "good" transition; AG can mimic a true identity disorder (and on rare instances accompany GID), but usually it is simply a sexual issue that can get out of control if not kept in check.

So, by taking hormones and living 1/2 as female am I keeping AG in check or simply feeding an addiction little at a time? Well, for me I enjoy some things as male and some things as female, but I refuse to be seen as a man-in-a-dress (vain of me, I know), so I use hormones to that end. My personaluty and demeanor naturally are rather non-gendered so I'm not going against the grain in that matter. So, my biggest battle is reminding myself of the truths I found through transition and keeping my current life (where I might be considered a "transgenderist") in check.

Cheryl Sussex said...

@Anonymous

A most sincere thank you for your very detailed reply.


"(I would argue that most TSs are indeed AG... and I've known HUNDREDS). AG does show itself as an addiction... and has to be dealt with in some way. AG does not (in my humble experience) qualify someone for a "good" transition; AG can mimic a true identity disorder (and on rare instances accompany GID), but
usually it is simply a sexual issue that can get out of control if not kept in check."


I very much agree with your above statement. I too have lost count of the of TS's I have met over the years, and I have to agree that pretty much all appeared to be AGP in some way. Even the closed circle TS groups I have been too appeared the same to me.

So how do you keep AGP in check? Anyone??


"So, by taking hormones and living 1/2 as female am I keeping AG in check or simply feeding an addiction little at a time? "


But at what level will you then experience the following (from your previous message):-

"but ultimately the hormone which has pushed them into this corner (testosterone) becomes weakened... the very element pushing the need for femininization is cut off... and without this hormone, the need for transition becomes cloudy... the meaning of their entire sex life becomes cloudy... the reason for
their feminization becomes uncertain... and they feel lost."


You are very lucky to have a supportive GF. But what about then getting to the stage were your entire sex life becomes cloudy?

Do you have the support of a doctor and is there any problems with the current request for hormones without transition.

I too have confessed AGP to my own therapist whilst I was on estrogen. It did not seem to be an issue at all. She even told me that the AGP may continue after a full transition too. In some ways I feel my therapist was rather encouraging. I asked her about what she thought of my appearance ( I always presented as male) and she said "There is no reason why you can't look like Victoria Beckham if you want after everything is finished...", almost if she was feeding my AGP.? Bizarre!!! In some ways todays viewpoint seems to be more about being politically correct about
treatment of trans people, rather than what is good for them.

When you de-transitioned and found yourself asexual were you happy? Or was the lack of sexual interest a source of unhappiness?

I feel I am very similar to you although I have only taken things so far with altering my chemistry to cope with AGP. Fear of self destruction and the fear of being alone keeps me in check - to a certain extent. I have feminised my body to a level myself but I need a stronger fix of feminization to feed the AGP. I got to the stage of being taken as female myself without trying.

Cheryl Sussex said...

@Anonymous


"I believe it is a "misfiring" of sexual development and without straight talk (with oneself) and deep reflect, the need to feminize can become overwhelming"


You hint in the above that there is some hope to control AGP from taking over your life by using straight talk and deep reflection. Did you achieve this for a time? I found my use of hormones
helped with AGP feelings and so far is the only this that has worked. But at the same time I don't want my life to be controlled by AGP - I really worry about were I will be in X number of years?

So, my biggest battle is reminding myself of the truths I found through transition and keeping my current life (where I might be considered a "transgenderist") in check.

This will be difficult but not impossible. However the doctor who gave me the hormones was very clear to me when I suggested this as a possible solution to my own circumstances. He stated "You are either one or the other, male or female, there is no inbetween". Which I thought was very strange for a gender specialist doctor to say.

This conditon does not seem to have a solution, except by chaning your body chemistry to feel normal.

Your current day to day life when you are presenting as male. Do people who walk past you in the street give you odd looks, do you feel self conscious? A lot of coping seems to boil down to how tough a peron you are inside.

I have found your messages here so helpful and was wondering if we could continue them via email? You can always contact me via the Crossdreamlife.com site, which you must have a look at.

Please also feel free to ask questions of me and my situation if you like. Just reading about your personal experiences has been better than any therapy session I have had so far. Thanks x

Anonymous said...

I'm glad someone can use something from my confusing life!

I think one HUGE issue here is the "binary culture" -- an example being that exclamation from your therapist. In my opinion, this is a large part of the problem -- some men and women cannot easily fit within the binary "norms" and are pushed to take drastic and permanent steps like transition. I'm not particularly an advocate of a 3rd gender, but I do think that men and women should be able to present as masculine and as feminine as they wish. I think many TSs would never have gone under the knife is this was the case in society.

As for the gender therapy establishment, I have absolutely no confidence in them. In fact, I think most are "transition mills" simply pushing cattle through to SRS. It's funny... When I first transitioned I was used as a "role model" for new transitioners by my therapist, but as I started to question the psychiatric methods and outcomes, they branded me a "failure" and a "freak" (trying to humiliate me publicly). I couldn't believe it; asking questions was more than they could allow. These were the very therapists I trusted with my life! After that, I vowed never to step foot into therapy again.

With that said, I spend a lot of time examining my life and actions... and I always strive to be painfully honest with myself -- even when what I find is counter to my wants. That is key in my world -- never lie to yourself.

As for hormonal feminization and getting "lost"... I think low levels of spiro have a calming effect without a total loss of sexual ability or interest... but the drive does lessen. Estrogen won't lessen anything... only feminize. If I were only trying to take the edge off of AG, I'd talk to someone about low levels of spiro. So, it's important to see what is wanted... diminished AG or in fact feminization? Strangely, I know a doctor here in town who implants estrogen and adds T for "non-ops." I can only imagine that's so they can perform during sex. Well, to each their own.

Anonymous said...

Do you think that you actually began to desire men because a latent sexuality emerged? I've heard of people being attracted to women but when they get hormones it changes, and I wonder if the autogynephilia was being replaced by the underlying sexual attraction to men, thereby effectivley possibly curing the autogynephilia?

Anonymous said...

I can't say that I have no underlying homosexuality. The only thing I can say is that I do not find men attractive. Now, I have had sex with men, and it hasn't been very interesting. At the same time, women taking on the masculine role in sex has been interesting. Did hormones make me more attracted to men? Maybe slightly... but moreso I noticed an intensification in wanting to be "taken." For whatthat's worth.

Anonymous said...

I think that when you tell that people think that you are a woman it is a DREAM...as hormones doesn't make you look like a women if you are dressed like a man, with facial hair and with a men's voice and a male way of walking.

But you tell that once you stopped hormones, people stopped seeing you as a woman.

So it is in your head.

Nika Maria Florez said...

i am very glad that i found this website. i have the condition of autogynephilia also, and have know so for many years.

Jack Molay said...

Thank you for your comment, Nika. I found your blog and will put up a link to it a.s.a.p.

http://nikasjourney.blogspot.com/

Nadia said...

oh I love your site. I'm finally reading about people who have shared this same existence. I've lived 36 years with confusion between being full transsexual and baffled and confused hetero male. I have to say I bought in to Blanchard's theory and it has messed me into trying to deny and downplay the sexual aspect of this condition to myself, in order to simply be regarded as a 'true' transsexual.
Of course, I came to recognize that even natal women surely show a sexual-type gratification from indulging in their femininity! We are NOT perverts. That would mean that me as a naive little 7 year old boy, knowing nothing of sex, but wanting to get dressed like his mother is already just a 'little pervert', how dimissive and demeaning!

I'm glad to be able to identify this as the main cause of my past problems with sexual relationships. Thank you for the good work -even if no quick solution exists, it helps to know I'm not alone.
-Nadia

Anonymous said...

I just want to add my voice here, because I remember being a confused teen, and having more voices will be an asset to others in the future.

I have AGP, and it took me forever to figure it out. I'll briefly summarise my story:

Before the age of 5 I was already playing dress up and engaging in AGP fantasy in private. I remember locking the door to my room, understanding that no one must know about this behavior, and playing dressup. This was accompanied by what (in retrospect) can only be explained as intense sexual fantasization, although at the time (being so young) I didn't understand it that way. But trust me, it definitely had a sexual character.

Then it went away around age 5 until puberty. At puberty I rediscovered my desires and fantasies (though didn't associate them with my early childhood behavior that I'd essentially forgotten. I was, am, and have always been for all intents and purposes intensely heterosexual (attracted to women).

At puberty, I discovered the internet, and damn if that didn't get me into trouble. Over the course of 3 or four years I did a great deal of (secret, in my room) crossdressing - mostly involving masturbatory components - and convinced myself I was transgendered.

I credit general teenage angst and feeling like I didn't belong/wondering "who am I?" etc. with the urge to identify as transgendered. I even developed an online female alter ego and maintained that persona in a large online group for years. I even came to conceptualize myself internally as a female.

Ultimately, this culminated at about 15 years of age when I "came out" as transgendered to my mom. God bless her, she called my bluff. She basically said, "Well, that means you want to wear dresses, marry a man, have babies, etc. etc." and said, "lets ponder this for a few days and see how we want to proceed."

We never mentioned it again. In those days of pondering I came to realize that my desire was almost entirely sexually motivated. I decided that the hassle of transitioning was one I wanted to skip.

I should mention I've NEVER had trouble with masculinity in my daily life, and actually take great pleasure in my day to day masculinity.

I made a vow to put these feelings aside, and "settle" for being a man. I went cold turkey on crossdressing, quit my online community, and put it out of my mind. It wasn't easy, and over the next few years I would occasionally lapse back into things for a week or so, but almost always just for sexual gratification.

I've since functioned happily (and sexually satisfyingly for the most part) in wonderful long term heterosexual relationships with women.

I then came to accept that I was just experiencing a particularly odd fetish, and I could manage it as such.

A year or so ago I realized the science had caught up to what I felt. There were other people feeling things similar to me. I can't begin to say how validating this felt. Although I've mostly settled these issues, I still enjoy AGP as a masturbatory fantasy, but can say with confidence that I don't want to be a woman.

I'd LOVE to try it for a day, or have the ability to feel what it's like to experience sexuality as a woman, but I have no actual desire to BE a woman in any other way.

If websites had existed like this when I was a teen I would have been spared years of anguish, confusion, shame, and the like. It's an incredible contribution that's being made here. Keep it up!!!

Jack Molay said...

@Anonymous

I hope I will be around to see the next generation of crossdreamers (transexual or non-transsexual), men and women who have used the Internet to find friends and fellow travellers from all over the world.

I see, for example, that the young male to female transgender video blogging over at YouTube, are changing common conceptions of "the perverted gynephilic autogynephiliac" through their presence alone.

They are young, feminine, intelligent and strong; nothing like the parody presented by Blanchard and others.

These young women now serve as role models for other transgender people.

The same applies to female to male transmen and genderqueer.

As for your desire being totally sexually motivated. Well, maybe, but does that make you less transgender. Can't sex identity be about sex as well? I mean, beyond basic instincts what defines a man as different from a woman is gender stereotypes, and they are the result of upbringing.

Your mother's response may sound common sense, but is totally beside the point. If you are raised as a man and has tried hard to adapt to the life as a man, no one can expect you to become "the perfect woman". You may still have a female sex identity.

Heck, I now a lot of women who act much more "masculine" than me. They are still women.

Palit said...

"Heck, I now a lot of women who act much more "masculine" than me. They are still women."

If that is the case that you have seen a lot of women act more masculine than you, then, at the same time, you seem to also go back to the premise that since you are feminine in sex,you should be a woman.
If those women don't feel they are men, why do you feel you have to be a woman or have female sex identity simply because of female sex identity?

Jack Molay said...

@Palit

No, my point is that feminine appearance, interests, mannerisms, personality traits are not a good indicator for sex identity. In other words: I agree with you.

There are many women who score much more on the "masculinity scale" than many men and vise versa. They still have a female sex identity (and I deliberately use the word sex identity as opposed to gender identity here). That is: They feel no sex dysphoria.

The fact that I may be more "feminine" than them along some dimensions does not give me a female sex identity in itself, precisely because sex identity and gender expression are two independent variables.

A male bodied person may have a female sex identity and "masculine" interests.

I am definitely sex dysphoric, but that is not because of what some call my empathic nature or feminist sympathies.

Palit said...

@Jack,
How do you possibly feel you are sex-dysphoric?
Whatever you mention about yourself and many other crossdreamers suggests presence of some kinds of traits deemed socially feminine.
However you have not exactly spoken about your sex dysphoria issues.

Jack Molay said...

@Palit

A lot of M2F crossdreamers, including myself, experience strong sex dysphoria (or gender dysphoria as it is often called), including (in my case) a strong alienation from my own male body and a deep longing to be a woman both physically and socially.

This is why I insist there is no clear boundary between transsexuals on the one side and crossdreamers and other transgender people on the other.

Yes, there are quite a few crossdreamers who do not experience sex dysphoria and who feel at home in their male bodies and male lives. This means that there is no one to one relationship between crossdreaming and sex dysphoria.

Whether the difference between dysphoric and non-dysphoric crossdreamers is caused by a difference in degree/intensity , or the existence of an additional factor that causes dysphoria, I do not know.

Palit said...

I can understand the feeling of being feminine, but I cannot really understand the feeling of alienation from one's own body.
One thing that can happen is that the socially feminine traits can cause a feeling of alienation from male body itself even though without those feminine traits, the person feels no problem in his body.
Could this be happening to you as well?
There seems to be a chicken and egg problem here. What causes what?

Jack Molay said...

@Palit

"One thing that can happen is that the socially feminine traits can cause a feeling of alienation from male body itself even though without those feminine traits, the person feels no problem in his body."

That might be the case. I cannot rule it out. But I have both strong "feminine" and "masculine" traits and interests (as do most men and women), and this feeling persists, even if I accept my feminine side, so to speak.

I know of a lot of men who are more "feminine" than me, and who report no such dysphoria

(But then again, what do I know? I am not exactly talking about this to others either...)

In my case, it feels more basic, instinctual. Well, I am not going to stop blogging until I know!!!

Joanna said...

@Anonymous
I believe this article by Madeline Wyndzen perhaps may help you. Perhaps, thinking on this begins from a point of very well known, very well used, science, promulgated out of sincere but prejudiced minds, which actually produced a scientific error of finding.

http://www.genderpsychology.org/autogynephilia/ and et al. (Very long read where Ms Wyndzen offers different conclusions.)

Anonymous said...

Great post, great comments thank you. I am definitely AGP, when I masturbate it always 100% me thinking of being a woman. I can't come out to my wife (I am absolutely certain she would leave me), but I have to do something. I've started using pregesterone cream and am considering upping the ante and using estrogen. I want to try this stuff long enough to see if it helps with my AGP, but want to avoid any permanent changes. Any thoughts?

D

Jack Molay said...

There are crossdreamers who try out hormones and who report that it calms them down, i.e. the crossdreaming become less obsessive.

But this is, of course, very risky. Taking hormones without help from a doctor may damage your health. Worst case scenario: They will kill you. Secondly: There is the temptation of going to far. Then what do you tell your wife?

I guess my message is: Find a tolerant and open minded psychiatrist and/or sexologist and take it from there. Many of them will agree to some kind of hormone treatment.

Fran said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Fran said...

Hi there all,
Yep, this still a hugely devisive issue.

Anywho, has anyone felt like theres been two trains of "feminine" thoughts and feelings in their AGP?

Since about age 10 I felt a non-sexual connection to femininity, and since then wanted to have the face & the emotions of a woman.

At 13 the sexual side developed which is when I used to dress up. I felt ashamed of this side of my "femininity".

However, both the non-sexual and the sexual connections were very seperate until recently. I didn't even see the connection! When I came out about crossdressing, suddenly I made the connection & I began to feel like a more well-rounded person who now is able to have relations without just being alone.

So, it feels to me like I have AGP...but I also seemed to have a non-sexual inclination that I should look & present as female from a fairly young age.

On another note - I've never taken hormones, but when I fantasise about being a lady with a man, I feel my whole body responds & is suddenly much more sensitive. I also am ambivalent towards the eventual orgasm, as its the emotional high I get from getting turned on that keeps me going on & on. I never knew until reading this that women seem to have all-over body sensations (yes, call my nieave ok) so I just find it interesting that without hormones I still seem to (in some way) be experiencing arousal in not the usual male way. Or am I just over-thinking & am wrong? hmm.

Fran said...

Hi there all,
Yep, this still a hugely devisive issue.

Anywho, has anyone felt like theres been two trains of "feminine" thoughts and feelings in their AGP?

Since about age 10 I felt a non-sexual connection to femininity, and since then wanted to have the face & the emotions of a woman.

At 13 the sexual side developed which is when I used to dress up. I felt ashamed of this side of my "femininity".

However, both the non-sexual and the sexual connections were very seperate until recently. I didn't even see the connection! When I came out about crossdressing, suddenly I made the connection & I began to feel like a more well-rounded person who now is able to have relations without just being alone.

So, it feels to me like I have AGP...but I also seemed to have a non-sexual inclination that I should look & present as female from a fairly young age.

On another note - I've never taken hormones, but when I fantasise about being a lady with a man, I feel my whole body responds & is suddenly much more sensitive. I also am ambivalent towards the eventual orgasm, as its the emotional high I get from getting turned on that keeps me going on & on. I never knew until reading this that women seem to have all-over body sensations (yes, call my nieave ok) so I just find it interesting that without hormones I still seem to (in some way) be experiencing arousal in not the usual male way. Or am I just over-thinking & am wrong? hmm.

bryony said...

I left a comment on the main blog, but as this thread is all about hormones, I thought I'd let you all know about Pueraria Mirific (PM). It is the most powerful phytoestrogen available and is an OTC food supplement. Targeted at women as a breast development herb, it works wonderfully allowing me to cope with severe AGP/GID. I've put more details on the main blog. It's pretty safe. If you use Google Scholar you will find some reassuring research papers. Ironically I tried it to grow my breasts, but it actually diminishes the desire to grow them. Paradoxical, because the amount that I have been taking to diminish this desire has caused them to grow 4 inches over the last year and a half.... One thing is certain though - however big they grow, and embarrassing as that may be, I can never give up this sense of calm again... I had it REALLY bad.

X. Padescu said...

It rings for me in that I also let my hair grow, and are being taken for a female without even trying. It must mean I'd pass if I' go for the operation, probably. I had a form and the lady at the counter was nice to fill in the first lines and she put gender - female on the first sheet, then not married, adress etceterae.

Iain Quicksilver said...

Very well written. What a treat for an editor to read your story, which is in excellent English. I also can really relate to everything you say. I took oestrogen (premarin and provera) for a few weeks years ago, and later a dominant lady sent me premarin for nearly six months and insisted on being sent photos of my progress (computers were still new at this time). I recently toom pueraria mirifica with some results, partly because I have retained a degree of feminization from my old hormone days. I have stopped for a while because I am facing a stomach aneurysm operation and don't want to aggravate my blood pressure, but you can be sure I will be back to pueraria mirifica after I get my stent. The feeling of peace and completeness when in the process of feminization is totally awesome.

Jack Molay said...

@Iain

How much of the feeling of peace and completeness do you think come from the hormones, and how much do you think is a result of self-acceptance?

It seems that Moon is predominantly referring to a physical effect.

ana M said...

am not sure how to open a comment as someone new to the blog, so I will simply wave silently as I am normally a bit of a wallflower and timid about posting in general. So imagine how I must feel now sharing my deepest thoughts and feelings like this, sighing deeply...

When I was a little boy of around 4, I knew that there was something different about me from the other boys. I remember being in a family gathering and noticing the women and girls and how they interacted and dressed in contrast to the men and I felt more comfortable and at home being with them. At the time I recall walking into a bathroom and finding a lipstick case and so I decided to apply it to myself making sure to get it right. Well, as you can imagine, when I walked out to be with everyone, there was an immediate and noticeable gasp. Some of the women smiled but my dad made it clear to me that boys don't wear lipstick. I think that was my first experience of feeling the humiliation while trying to express who I am. That is when I realized society look and men and women in very different ways.

That need in me never faded, by the age of 11, I found myself alone at home, being a latch-key child, I took the opportunity to experience wearing my mother’s clothes. I continued doing it, and felt a real sense of fear that my parents might find out. Deep down, I think my mother knew, as she finally caught me once. We looked at each other and promised to keep it a secret between us.

I suppose like most teenagers, nothing prepared me for what it was like for me in my teenage years. Once I hit puberty, I noticed how the other boys would look at the girls a certain way and make every effort to be with them. One by one I started to see the boys and girls pairing up. I was an attractive good looking boy, but the thought and understanding of the admiration towards the opposite sex did not translate the same way to me. You see I looked at the girls wishing I was them with the boys and dreamed about doing everything that boy friend, girl friends do together (not entirely in a sexual way). I knew of Transsexuality in the early 80s, but it was still something I did not understand fully, so I deluded myself into thinking that all the boys felt as I did, but expressed it differently.

I did not have many friends, being introverted and always raising my guard with others as a protective shield. I worked at an office after school in a more traditional female setting, with me as the only male in an office of over 20 girls. I was accepted as one of them, but relentlessly teased by the boys in the warehouse. I remember fearing some of them with the looks that I received. Keep in mind I was not cross dressing publicly, but I had a very slim figure with a feminine or rather not nearly at all masculine face and hair. I did not realize that I was projecting any femininity but I felt that I must have projected an aura subconsciously. Suffice as to say, none of the girls looked at me as potential boyfriend material. I recall once a really beautiful girl telling me that I was such an unfortunate waste. Intuitively, I understood what she meant to tell me and it unintentionally hurt. I wanted to prove to everyone I was not who they thought I was, I wanted to be normal like everyone else and tried hard to project a masculine image, but of course acting it and being it are two very different things.

It wasn’t until I was around 18 that I finally admitted to myself that I was TS and began to accept it as part of me. It gave me a sense of comfort and inner peace. My inner self wishing desperately to come out, to be female expressing myself as I truly am, while my outside persona behaving as was expected to but not always successfully. In my mind it was the cross that I was given as a TS and felt that I would find a way to become who I feel I should be.

ana M said...

I did think about suicide at times, asking God, to either take me away or have me wake up from this surreal nightmare as the woman that I felt I truly was. Without the benefit of internet, one day I looked up psychiatrists and psychologists in the phone book. I thought it was time for me to do something about it. I found a name without being sure what she specialized in and visited her. The experience was not comfortable for me and it did not seem like the right match and so I did not return back to her. I did feel euphoric though, because I took that first step and I could always try again.

Moving on into my 20s and going to college, my focus turned to making a lot of money and moving away from my family. My thoughts turned to my freedom with a job bringing me closer to my dream. Of course, once I started working, reality set in. I would dress privately at home but I lacked the courage to come out. Eventually, with family pressure, I married and settled down living the life everyone expected of me.

Fortunately I have no children, but my desires have never abated as my inner turmoil continued. Looking through the internet I came across many articles on transsexuality and found the label “autogynephelia”. It occurred to me that it was meant to imply that I was not a true TS. Imagine how I must have felt to hear about something that is so close to the core of my being, something that I lived with most of my life, and eventually coming to terms with, now only to be perceived as a fraud. I read about autogynephelia in more depth and admittedly there are some elements of truth, but not all. I like to think that I am multifaceted with all shades of the rainbow, not nearly as black and white as the definitions would make me out to be. I am not driven by sexual desires, I know that, but at times when I feel excited and happy about letting my inner self express itself it does feel euphoric. So here I am now, I have started looking for a psychologists to help me unravel my confusion and help me explore who I really am.

A. Quiet Voice said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
A. Quiet Voice said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
A. Quiet Voice said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Lindsay said...

@ana M

Just a warning. AQV is a troll on this site whose been banned by Jack. She comes across as this sweet grandmotherly TS to new comers and then tries to manipulate them into believing her out dated and biased beliefs. If anyone tries to question her on them she becomes quite aggressive, using foul language, bigoted terms and spewing hatred. Luckily, I don't think she has successfully influenced anyone. I know it wouldn't have taken you long to figure it out on your own.

I think you'll find that there is a treasure trove of great information on this site and if you haven't discovered it yet, Jack's companion site at crossdreamlife.com has more and posts by many people who are going through the same things you are. I don't know of any other sites where you can find this subject explored in such detail and from so many angles. I know we all look forward to more posts by you and please know that we will gladly help you. No one can tell you who you are, you have to figure it out, and it sounds like you're already well on your way. But reading what others have done and asking questions is a big part of it.

Lindsay

ana Marin said...

@Lindsey

Thank you Lindsey I will repost at the other site. I do feel at home here as I read about others with shared experiences. It's kind of comforting actually.

Jack Molay said...

@Ana

Thank you for telling us about your story, and I feel for you.

I think you have already come a long way towards understanding what and who you are.

And I can assure you that having erotic crossdreamer fantasies does not mean that you are not a woman. How can you possibly fantasise, if you are a woman, if it is not about being an attractive woman being desired by someone else.

Don't give up. Find an open and understanding therapist. And if the first one doesn't get it, find another. And yes, Crossdreamlife.com is a good place to find kindred spirits.

Furthermore, follow Lindsay's advice and ignore trans women like A Quitet Voice. She belongs to a tiny fringe movement of deeply sexist and transphobic persons who cannot stand the thought of having people like us reminding them of who they are. Ignore her, in the knowledge that the main trans activists accept crossdreaming women as the real thing. So do most of the therapists in the field.

And never call yourself an autogynephile! There are not autogynephiles.