tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post7150173258135933323..comments2024-02-25T22:43:04.662-08:00Comments on Crossdreamers: The love life of non-transsexual crossdreamers -- getting realSally Molayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02015510914816971645noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-31877864068884443952013-04-20T08:12:20.195-07:002013-04-20T08:12:20.195-07:00Again you disingenuously conflate the clearly dist...Again you disingenuously conflate the clearly distinct terms, trans gender and transsexual.<br /><br />This together with your shameless and completely unfounded assertion that...<br />"It is true that heterosexual transsexual men and women (androphilic MTF transwomen and gynephilic FTM transmen) are less likely to report crossdreamer fantasies to researchers, but this is most likely because they have had a sex life as 'gay' before transitioning."<br />This clearly reinforces wxylup's contention that you are pushing your own agenda in an effort to legitimize your own personal struggle with AGP.<br /><br />In fact, while you and Serano *might* have some valid ideas that apply to the wide variety of transgender, "crossdreamers" and many others suffering from or enjoying AGP and/or GID, they have absolutely no relevance to those born transsexual.<br /><br />Please do not try to make this about 'better than' or 'more legitimate'. It is not. What I object to is your overgeneralizing, and in so doing, causing unnecessary harm to those trying to understand their own individual lives. <br /><br />The truth is that you have absolutely NO idea what it means to be born transsexual. Please stop pretending that you do.<br /><br />Respectfully,<br /><br />r2d2Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12544115780720263917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-51246154624835678392013-04-20T07:45:49.006-07:002013-04-20T07:45:49.006-07:00"Crossdreaming, in the sense of getting arous..."Crossdreaming, in the sense of getting aroused from the idea of being the other sex relative to one's birth sex is very common among transsexual men and women."<br /><br />Translation,<br /><br />Identifying as dysphoric or even transgendered is quite common for male sexed persons who are sexually aroused by relating to oneself through femininity. <br /><br />Julia Serano is one of this minority of whom are aroused by such, who also identify as dysphoric. It is common for such dysphoric identifying persons to account for what they are aroused by in special circumstances, as the unnecessary feel that it illegitimates the dysphoric identification. Dysphoria is superfluous to that which one is sexually aroused by here. These dysphoric persons thus like to think that everyone who is also aroused by such is transsexual, and even if they have never felt dysphoria, then they are simply repressed transsexuals.<br /><br />"For transsexual men and women who have not transitioned and who are nor asexual crossdreaming is a given fact."<br /><br />Don't be fooled. Molay would have you think that "crossdreaming" is the "natural" fantasies on part of the other sex, by crude and ignorant conflation. Actually is it what used to be referred to as "transvestic fetishism", constituted as sexual arousal by the anxiety of being related to femininity, typified here, <br /><br />http://www.petticoatpunishmentart.com/docs/cjarticles.html<br /><br />"Sexual fantasies must include the concept of you having a body in harmony with your real sex identity when having sex."<br /><br />This is a crude reduction of femininity to an anatomic symbolism of femininity. Credulous and not representative of the actual fantasies of these persons.<br /><br />"Most of the reports from MTF transwomen I have seen indicate that crossdreaming stops or abates after transitioning."<br /><br />Neutralization or reconstitution is expected when continuously immersed in anything of enjoyment. You can see many accounts of such fantasies of AGPs continuing after transition, even previously on this page.<br /><br />"There are exceptions, howevers. I seen TG cappers who continue to write TG fiction post-op. I guess they have established an arousal pattern that is so strong, that it takes time for it to fade away."<br /><br />Usually things which are predominantly sexually arousing for individuals are permanently imprinted in their psyche. This should remain for the individual's lifetime, or as the libido reduces with age or other effects such as hormones. This doesn't necessarily touch of the historical psychological context of sexuality and self-identification in the individual.theautogynephiliachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01825700722338875399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-66673634184147948612013-04-20T03:40:50.393-07:002013-04-20T03:40:50.393-07:00Crossdreaming, in the sense of getting aroused fro...Crossdreaming, in the sense of getting aroused from the idea of being the other sex relative to one's birth sex is very common among transsexual men and women. Julia Serano, referred to above, is only one of many transwomen who has written about this. I have a large number of reports from transmen saying the same.<br /><br />For transsexual men and women who have not transitioned and who are nor asexual crossdreaming is a given fact. Sexual fantasies must include the concept of you having a body in harmony with your real sex identity when having sex. Having such a body becomes arousing in itself by association.<br /><br />It is true that heterosexual transsexual men and women (androphilic MTF transwomen and gynephilic FTM transmen) are less likely to report crossdreamer fantasies to researchers, but this is most likely because they have had a sex life as 'gay' before transitioning. For them dreaming of having sex as their target sex is just given and not something reported as autogynephilia. Or maybe some of them are not transsexual at all.<br /><br />Most of the reports from MTF transwomen I have seen indicate that crossdreaming stops or abates after transitioning. As the female self is allowed to express herself in a natural way, the idea of being transformed stops being exciting in itself. <br /><br />There are exceptions, howevers. I seen TG cappers who continue to write TG fiction post-op. I guess they have established an arousal pattern that is so strong, that it takes time for it to fade away. This is to be expected, the diversity of transgender people considered.Jack Molayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03629363646482611722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-65895678941435926962013-04-19T09:15:11.242-07:002013-04-19T09:15:11.242-07:00I think it is unfair to assume, as the title of th...I think it is unfair to assume, as the title of this post clearly implies, that transsexuals are "crossdreamers". <br /><br />The problem with this implication is that it makes an assumption based on the anecdotal reports of those that may or may not be actual transsexuals as opposed to understandably confused crossdreamers or autogynephiliacs. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-24728095272810524302013-04-19T05:40:11.243-07:002013-04-19T05:40:11.243-07:00http://theautogynephiliac.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/m...http://theautogynephiliac.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/manipulation-in-crossdream-discourse.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-47824838918167886792013-04-16T13:50:56.384-07:002013-04-16T13:50:56.384-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06742298653334993493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-71678431643413883952013-04-13T19:03:40.021-07:002013-04-13T19:03:40.021-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.theautogynephiliachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01825700722338875399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-11615983830697223002013-04-13T11:30:40.246-07:002013-04-13T11:30:40.246-07:00@Anonymous/theAutogynephiliac
Here is how this wo...@Anonymous/theAutogynephiliac<br /><br />Here is how this works. Blogger does not allow me to ban individual commenters as such. However, there are ways of removing all comments from one person in one go, and if I am forced to do so that is what will happen. <br /><br />I hope to avoid that, because in spite of what you want everyone to believe, I actually want these discussions to be available for future reference.<br /><br />You are a seriously disturbed human being with seemingly no ability to understand the general rules of civilized social interaction. <br /><br />You seem incapable of understanding the effects your action has on others, being that transsexuals or people like me. <br /><br />Alternatively, you <i>do</i> actually understand the effects of what you are doing, but do not give a damn, either because you think being human is to reduce interaction to a rational discourse devoid of feelings, or you are actually deliberately trying to hurt me and others like me.<br /><br />It doesn't matter really. Me banning you is no threat to the freedom of speech. You have already your own blog and can talk there all you want.<br /><br />I for one is not going to take this kind of abuse from anyone. So get out and stay out. You are a bully and it is long time since I let bullies rule my life.Jack Molayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03629363646482611722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-34026063033563438212013-04-13T11:26:12.026-07:002013-04-13T11:26:12.026-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jack Molayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03629363646482611722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-8219164329267300962013-04-13T06:58:22.068-07:002013-04-13T06:58:22.068-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.theautogynephiliachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01825700722338875399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-90451008641895880592013-04-13T06:23:41.275-07:002013-04-13T06:23:41.275-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.theautogynephiliachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01825700722338875399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-63682851530521357262013-04-13T05:15:29.345-07:002013-04-13T05:15:29.345-07:00I agree with lindsay.I agree with lindsay.joanna Santoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16722222181799879120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-70927432503774576752013-04-13T04:09:02.286-07:002013-04-13T04:09:02.286-07:00@Anonymous
Your complete lack of respect for tran...@Anonymous<br /><br />Your complete lack of respect for transsexual men and women is amazing, as is your complete insbility to understand what it means to be gender dysphoric. Your quasi-philosophical ramblings <br />about what it means to feel gender incongruence makes it perfectly clear that you have absolutely no clue. <br /><br />This brings ua back to the exact same situation as when 'wxhylup' dominated discussions at this blog:<br /><br />1. Every discussion ends up as a response to your monomanic ramblings.<br /><br />2. Every discussion becomes dominated by you repeatedly insulting transwomen by reducing them to sexualized fetishists.<br /><br />This will never be an arena for the belittling and persecution of trans people. Anyone deliberately and consciously contributing to the stigmatization of trans people will be banned. <br /><br />I am sick and tired of you abusing my wish for an open discussion about crossdreaming. You really have to work on your people skills.<br /><br />And please stop reappering under new identities. Your style if writing is hard to miss, Wxhlup!<br /><br />@Samz<br /><br />This does not in any way apply to you. You will get a response from me asap.Jack Molayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03629363646482611722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-25374667665918402672013-04-13T02:29:44.208-07:002013-04-13T02:29:44.208-07:00"But your refusal to admit that there might b..."But your refusal to admit that there might be a biological component really hurts your credibility."<br /><br />It has been addressed repeatedly. <br /><br />That something like a biological component among the conditions in presexualized anxiety is adjunct. It is obvious in the case of "mere fetishists" that mere perceived inadequacies and other anxieties historically constitute their "fetishism", yet an AGP & ideologically trans-identified person will appeal to special terms to account for themselves (biological component). Namely that the very same presexualized conditions will usually be interpreted in accordance with a more traditional trans narrative.<br /><br />Regarding the emergence of dysphoria in AGPs, it is imperative to understand the historical psychological context of sexual desires. What are the properties that are represented in "dysphoria", what is one doing when they are self-identifying? How can longings become distressing? We see the phenomenon everywhere, of affinities or a general love of the object of sexual desire, and little difference in it shaping how one perceives the world and identifies.<br /><br />The difference is where it is obvious that in the production of AGP itself, that any biological component is adjunct, but a dysphoric AGP ideologically desires an account necessitating a biological component which they see (unnecessarily) as legitimating their identity. The logic goes that if not biologically grounded, than it is directly sexually grounded. No it is not that simple. Sexuality can historically root the conditions of legitimate transgender self-identification.theautogynephiliachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01825700722338875399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-80230164663527254122013-04-12T16:33:02.460-07:002013-04-12T16:33:02.460-07:00Hmm when did this turn into a debate between right...Hmm when did this turn into a debate between right and wrong?<br /><br />We should focus on the topic, plz!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09273905611748020119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-2890031923821875862013-04-12T14:52:00.685-07:002013-04-12T14:52:00.685-07:00To the autogynephyliac:
You really need to learn ...To the autogynephyliac:<br /><br />You really need to learn how to express your opinions to the average person. Your use of highly technical jargon just confuses most of us. I'm an electrical engineer so I'm no dummy, but I'm tired of jumping back and forth to Wikipedia to try to understand your techno babble. Also, you don't need to personally shoot down everybody else's opinions just because you disagree with them.<br /><br />I think that everyone here would agree with you that our life experiences help shape who we are, both consciously and subconsciously (which is what I think you're trying to say). But your refusal to admit that there might be a biological component really hurts your credibility.<br /><br />I also think that most people here would agree that some people (the fetishists) may be explained completely by your theory. The TG/TS's are only partially explained by it, if at all.<br /><br />LindsayLindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06742298653334993493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-48101653615177307162013-04-12T14:00:35.413-07:002013-04-12T14:00:35.413-07:00"My identity is not sexually arousing. It is ..."My identity is not sexually arousing. It is simply my identity."<br /><br />That is not what is being proposed.theautogynephiliachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01825700722338875399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-26549504817153864382013-04-12T10:26:43.874-07:002013-04-12T10:26:43.874-07:00My identity is not sexually arousing. It is simply...My identity is not sexually arousing. It is simply my identity.<br /><br />This is my last post on this thread with apologies to jack....joanna Santoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16722222181799879120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-75873229621839581962013-04-12T09:08:48.960-07:002013-04-12T09:08:48.960-07:00"a strong almost illogical bias against even ..."a strong almost illogical bias against even the possibilty of a biological root for all this."<br /><br />A biological root regarding what...<br /><br />1. A common "fetish", overlapping with little structural difference with other autophilic and masochistic fetishes. A biological root for autogynephilia, is a biological root for furrys and cuckoldism.<br /><br />2. "Dysphoria". What is it that "dysphoria" represents? Do autogynephiliacs have a greater propensity to perceive what are otherwise general sexual longings in terms of "dysphoria"? Yes, this is commonplace. The gut wrenching sexual longing one feels when separated from his lover and anticipates, is what seems to be the very feeling I also feel when formulating an unbearably sexy caption, or seeing a girl on the train wearing a sexy suit and imaging that I was subjected to that very suit. <br /><br />Much autogynephiliac attribution to "dysphoria" is conflating with more complicated psychological dynamics related with the particulars of an individuals sexual longings. Also it can not be more overstated that most autogynephiliacs are not dysphoric, which reflects the niches of AGP fantasies and the wider psychological context of the individual.<br /><br />"Dysphoria". A relative dissatisfaction of distress, but what is the object(s) of such? <br /><br />It seems that there are two levels of "dysphoria" on part of an autogynephiliac with no pre-existing trans-idenfication.<br /><br />1. A conflation of normal feelings of sexual longings, with feelings attributed to the traditional trans narrative.<br /><br />2. A progression and perhaps self-sustaining emergent psychology, which can produce similar psychological conditions as the traditional trans narrative.<br /><br />"the fact that we have not yet found a genetic marker does not mean one does not exist."<br /><br />It is interesting that people are so utterly oblivious to that fact that how we think, is substantially constituted by how we have happened to think.<br /><br />Look towards that which mediates our thought, and you have a collection of non-gendered variables, which within culture are gendered. Commonsense falsely dictates that these culturally gendered objects are biological archetypes. Not that this has anything to do furries or cuckoldism.<br /><br />"The best we can say is that we don't know but strong evidence of the tenaciousness and persistence of this condition (even when the person fights desperately against it) would at least suggest there's a good case there to be made."<br /><br />You think that people can only feel strongly about things that are biologically mediated? Alcoholism? Psychologically speaking and in all seriousness, do you think people like the following, do what they do because the are "merely" sexually aroused by so? <br /><br />http://www.eunuch.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?26-Penectomy-Bulletin-Board<br /><br />What is the psychological conditions for which one could go through with such and live with such for the remainder of their life? Again it is a serious situation. It is something sexually arousing, but the "becoming more" than a fetish is real and must be addressed and elucidated.theautogynephiliachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01825700722338875399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-51518152494015586132013-04-12T04:20:34.650-07:002013-04-12T04:20:34.650-07:00Autogynrphiliac clearly has a strong almost illogi...Autogynrphiliac clearly has a strong almost illogical bias against even the possibilty of a biological root for all this.<br /><br />I find that fascinating because the fact that we have not yet found a genetic marker does not mean one does not exist.<br /><br />The best we can say is that we don't know but strong evidence of the tenaciousness and persistence of this condition (even when the person fights desperately against it) would at least suggest there's a good case there to be made.<br /><br />Your absolute refusal to even entertain the possibility is irrational.joanna Santoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16722222181799879120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-4939788021637614772013-04-12T04:10:07.757-07:002013-04-12T04:10:07.757-07:00Boring indeed....Boring indeed....joanna Santoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16722222181799879120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-13578554933506897332013-04-11T18:43:40.482-07:002013-04-11T18:43:40.482-07:00What we have here is a "debate" by blind...What we have here is a "debate" by blind men about the phenomenology of the color red. Boring in the extreme.<br /><br />r2d2Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12544115780720263917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-75436695738226638362013-04-11T12:51:19.552-07:002013-04-11T12:51:19.552-07:00"I believe the various transgender (≠transsex..."I believe the various transgender (≠transsexual) conditions we are facing are caused by a mix of - and an interaction between - genetic, epigenetic, hormonal, cultural, social and /or personal factors."<br /><br />Do you acknowledge the nebulousness of "self identification", that the properties in question do not necessitate anything other than psychological constitution? <br /><br />That you ideologically assume a biological root, and manipulate inauthenticity when proposed otherwise?<br /><br />"The fact that both transsexual and nontransexual crossdreamers crossdream, however, makes it unlikely that the two groups are completely unrelated."<br /><br />There is a misleading simplicity here in your terms and also in your presuppositions regarding the experience of "dysphoria". What is present is a sexual experience and wider psychological context. A psychological space between "mere fetishist", sexual longings, dysphoria and transgender identification. <br /><br />"Since it is clear to me that few transsexuals are primaily or only motivated by their sexual fantasies"<br /><br />I have never proposed that one transitions exclusively on the basis of sexual mediation. Rather that the desire to ACTUALLY transition will be based on relatively strong psychological investments, rooted historically in sexual mediation. The difference here is between direct sexual mediation and the context of psychological becoming, which absolutely must be understood.<br /><br />"Unlike you, I actually believe what transwomen are saying about themselves, probably because my own gender dysphoria makes me more like them"<br /><br />Again, your terms are misleadingly simplistic.<br /><br />"In other words: I see and feel something you don't."<br /><br />Dysphoria, of which you ground in your ideological terms and I see as more complicated.<br /><br />"And it is this, as well as your philosophical lock in, that leads this discussion nowhere."<br /><br />Not a "lock in". Simply trans identity is psychologically adjunct. A sexual experience that does not necessitate any transgenderism, yet can produce legitimate transgender identification.<br /><br />"I am not going to allow this type of discussion to dominate this blog."<br /><br />When it suits yourself.theautogynephiliachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01825700722338875399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-23312255689105689592013-04-11T12:50:44.637-07:002013-04-11T12:50:44.637-07:00"what I was saying is that if it were only a ..."what I was saying is that if it were only a kink then my feminine identification or fantasies should be reducing in conjunction with my decreasing sex drive."<br /><br />Not necessarily. Whilst sexual mediation can psychologically root and reinforce such, a psychological presence of any kind is not necessarily constrained by it's context of genesis. For example a love of painting may define one's life and identity, but itself may not be reducible to the artist or works that is responsible for the love to begin with.<br /><br />"I am not going to allow anyone to use this blog to systematically denigrate transsexual men and women"<br /><br />The use of "denigration" is your manipulation. You are the one manipulatively proposing a defence the terms that if one isn't a transsexual, then one is a deluded pervert. What I am actually proposing is a sexual phenomenology without a necessitating transgender presence, and also the potential for genuine transgender psychological investment.<br /><br />"I am sick and tired of people trying to reduce the complexity of real life to simplistic sex theories."<br /><br />Again, you are the one being simplistic, proposing an exclusive existentialistic, deterministic transsexual reduction, almost completely devoid of the vagueness or psychology.<br /><br />"And the fact is that you are repeating the same old sexist cliches about trans people"<br /><br />No, I am not. However trans identification is historically rooted, does not necessarily constrain it. The identification can be totally legitimate, and in addition, legitimacy can be rooted in almost anything.<br /><br />"I take note of the fact that you have dismissed Julia Serano before reading her."<br /><br />And you manipulatively misrepresent me. What I know of Serano is what has been represented and paraphrased. Dismissal, perhaps, but she has not added anything to this discussion here, other than a supposed appeal to authority.<br /><br />"I do not believe all crossdreamers are repressed transsexuals."<br /><br />Do you acknowledge the simple fetishism and trans identification as an adjunct precondition of sexualization and and adjunct potential psychological investment? <br /><br />Do you acknowledge that sexuality can historically root a legitimate trans identity?theautogynephiliachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01825700722338875399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2472400923228993687.post-24383961707492856292013-04-11T08:24:32.150-07:002013-04-11T08:24:32.150-07:00amen to that amen! and thank you...amen to that amen! and thank you...joanna Santoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16722222181799879120noreply@blogger.com