February 28, 2011

Beyond the fetish

Sarah makes a very interesting observation about the relationship between transwomen and crossdreamers over at her Crossdreamer in a Bottle blog:

'All of this surfaced periodically in my head throughout today and I came to a new thought that I had not had before. Though many are saying that autogynephilia [erotic feminization fantasies] and "classic" transsexuality are different conditions at their core, what if they are wrong? Perhaps the only real difference is that a "classic" transgender female feels like a "woman in a man's body", thus experiencing an early onset gender confusion, whereas we crossdreamers are "women in a man's body and mind". If the difference is simply a factor of the way our mind is wired, then perhaps the sexual response is simply a male mind's response to the need to be female.'

Read also her discussion of the difference between a fetish and a transgender condition:

'I do have a separate unrelated fetish, though I won't get into the specifics, and because of the experience of these in tandem, I can feel a significant difference between the fetish and my autogynephilia. Whereas with the fetish I can be turned on very strongly, I don't actually want it to be made manifest- "it's just a fantasy", yet with the desire to be female there is nothing I want more, even though it usually doesn't turn me on quite as much as my fetish. Each day my desire for a female form varies in intensity, but irrespective of how turned on I am on any given day, the feeling that I am somehow trapped inside an inescapable prison and sometimes almost crying at some level deep inside, seems to point strongly to the suggestion that we are more closely related to classic transgendered women than many would have us believe.'

Read the whole blog post here.

15 comments:

James said...

"Each day my desire for a female form varies in intensity, but irrespective of how turned on I am on any given day, the feeling that I am somehow trapped inside an inescapable prison and sometimes almost crying at some level deep inside, seems to point strongly to the suggestion that we are more closely related to classic transgendered women than many would have us believe."
Couldn't agree more. I am just the feminine bisexual male, not even a crossdresser. But even I can stand testimony to this. There are some days when I have strongly felt I need to switch over!!

King said...

So it is possible to be a woman trapped not only in a male body but in a male mind ?

Why not an alien in a human body or a tiger in a woman's body ?

Then everybody can be what he wants. I like this new concept of life.

I am then an alien women with a kid's mind, a male body.

Sarah said...

I detect sarcasm :P

Kathryn Martin said...

I find these quotes very interesting. What they suggest is that there is a distinction between mind and self. In my view this distinction is necessary to correctly understand gender and sex.

James said...

To be a woman in male body as well as a male mind means that you are having traits of real women but there is also a male inside you. The male inside you responds in a male way but since you also are strongly feminine, you respond to it both as a woman as well as a man.
Which ultimately denotes a possibility of an androgynous gender, but definitely your female side tends to be stronger which is what the problem is all about.

king said...

Some people tell that women are AG and that so men who want to be women could be too without beeing called fetishists. They are like women = excited by their own body.

But why don't we ask if men are excited by themselves ?

As some women are AA, should we conclude that most men are excited by their own body ? I don't think so. The proof is that most don't even understand how girls can like men !

KING said...

My fantasies started around 12 years = I was turned on by nylon (I never liked fishnet) stocking on women's legs.

Then the fetish went on my own legs in stockings. May be because I had no woman with nylon and even no woman at all to love ?

Once I met my first girl, at 22 years (I was slow despite the fact many women liked me!) I went deeper into self fetishism, started to go outside in nylon stocking and skirt and pumps...

The strange thing is that the urge to be wear girls' clothes increades once I was in a relationship and was having normal sex with a woman. As if I discovered that a pussy was a good thing to own and not to fuck.

Now, 15 years later, the fetish is going more on more on the body. I really want a pussy and don't care about my penis. I don't hate my penis, I even find it nice but sticking it in a mouth, pussy, ass is more or less BORING.

And when I ejaculte after having normal sex, I feel most of the time frustrated, unhappy, stressed...

When I wear stockings and stick a dildo in my ass, I feel MYSELF. I always tell to myself "this is ME, this is what I crave for, what I want, what I need, what makes me HAPPY in bed, I can not live without this because I feel so good"

This is not just beeing more excited or pefering anal sex. This is really having the feeling to be at my genuine place. With my dick in a pussy, I feel like an actor, a poser, a liar. With a dick in me, I feel un my genuine role.

Am I the only one to feel like this ?

I doubt that loving to be filled in by dicks and wearing stockings is enough to be a woman...

The problem is that I don't see myself as gay (a man loving men) as I don't find men sexy or lovely.

Jack Molay said...

No, you are not the only one who feels like this. Many of the people reading this blog report similar feelings.

"I doubt that loving to be filled in by dicks and wearing stockings is enough to be a woman..."

To live like a woman and play the role of a woman in present day society? Maybe not. I guess people would expect more stereotyped behavior and looks from someone who has transitioned than a woman that was born i a woman's body.

But what does it mean to be a woman, really?

KING said...

To ve a woman my mean to take care of kids, cook and clean instead of spending one's time on blogs ?

James said...

"As some women are AA, should we conclude that most men are excited by their own body ? I don't think so. The proof is that most don't even understand how girls can like men"

Holy grail!! Who told you this?
Certainly, ALL men like their bodies and very much like what they do in sex.
The ones who say so, must be transgendered like you.

KING said...

If all loves their own body, they wouldn't be homophobic and disgusted by 2 gay men kissig...

And they would dress well and not be slobs in t shirt like 90% of men. They would dress up like many girls do.

James said...

Homophobia in any case is sissyphobia and it could well be (which I am understanding these days more), that straight men tend to be homophobic and claim that they are disgusted by kissing among men, not because they really hate their own bodies, but because of its strong socially unmanly connotations. Many are homophobic because of their own repressed homoromantic sides.
Dressing like slobs still means liking oneself and one's manly body because in any case, masculinity is about being a slob in stererotypical sense.
So, the fact is that those who hate their bodies would indeed be the transgendered ones. Or else, everyone would be transgendered.

James said...

http://www.philosophy-religion.org/handouts/pdfs/Transgender.pdf

This is a good handout for transgendered individuals to understand what TG is all about. I don't think things fall into a black and white category, so, while it is unfair for the milder transgenders (those who aren't transsexual) to assume that transsexuals are just stupid conformists, it is also unfair for transsexuals to assume that other TGs are not really transgendered but fetisists.
The problem is that because things are not black and white,a person of a certain category of TG, often fails to understand the other because of the perspectives.

James said...

This too:

http://www.tgtoday.com/transgender/transgender.html

KING said...

Thanks for these interesting links

So I think that :

1) Sex
I am a man (I am masculine and have a dick)

2) Gender ID
I have a mixed gender identity (I don't thinks that I should have been a woman but I don't see myself as a standard man)

3) Sexual orientation/sexual identity
I find women attractive physicaly and mentaly

4) Gender
I like my social role of man (I don't want to use make up all the time, take care of kids, I am rather dominant...) and don't see myslef in a social female role.
BUT I like the female role in sex (I am clearly bottom and passive and don't care about my dick)

So may be I am not finished ? Still a sadic kid at the anal stage ?!!!

I am somewhat transgendered or better, genderqueer.


The problem is to find a woman who can understand my needs and accept that I am not so excited by her body but by mine in the role pf the woman.

I found one who doesn't run away but the problem is now managing to have normal sexual life with her without feeling dysphoric.

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