February 3, 2011

Purple Silence

I have not really spent much time on arguing with the Classic Transsexual separatist group, you know, the one arguing that crossdressers and crossdreamers have nothing in common with them, being real women.

One of the reasons for this is that I agree with their argument that transsexualism is not a psychological syndrome, but something inborn. They are real women to me, not some kind of strange gender hybrid.

There are a few of them, however, who spend an awful lot of time attacking people the call the "transgender" or "TG", who in their opinion are trying to take over the transsexual narrative. They are accusing all other "TGs" of being the same as the majority of my readers: fetishists, "autogynephiliacs" and crossdressers. Some of them are extremely aggressive, to point of using the male pronoun for tranwomen that they feel do not live up to the purity of womanhood.

Tweeting

I have not blogged about them, but I have tweeted. Here is one such tweet:

The destructive and hateful TS/TG war flares up again.http://ow.ly/3JDVA http://ow.ly/3JDVI http://ow.ly/3JDW0 http://ow.ly/3JDWC

Purple gets annoyed

One of the links go to the blog Purple Speaks. Purple is not amused. In a post called Jack Molay strikes again she writes:

"I am getting sick of Jack Molay, a cross-dresser, keeping tabs on this mainstream and TS blog. Being a TG cross-dressing man, he has no right to keep an eye on TS sites. The TG+gay community is one community, and the TS/mainstream/cis-gendered community is another. TGs have no right to try to control or keep tabs on TSs, and TSs have no right to do that to TGs.

Jack's libel of TS-only sites as anti-TG hate sites is unwelcome. We don't hate them. We just want our OWN community without them trying to lead us, help us, or define us. Let us be our own train wrecks if we must, and stay out of our way. We have the right to fail, on our own, without TGs trying to help us in ANY way....

True-TSs are neither autogynephiles or androphiles, since there are NO sexual or erotic motives to true-TSism. Autogynephiles are straight men who have a fetish for femininity, while androphiles are self-hating, effeminate gay men. Discredited 'researchers' who were really TG admirers and who couldn't admit their homosexual attraction to cross-dressed men invented the entire AG/AP thing. So that makes them homophobes, and they were willing to abuse/exploit true-TSs for unsavory purposes, and Jack pays homage to them."

You can read the rest here.

Anyway, I posted a response over at her blog, but she is holding on to her principles, and so far she has not published my comment. So, I publish my response to her here instead:

My response

"Just some points of clarification:

I am not trying to deny you or other of your allies to organize separately from any other group of persons. That is your democratic right.

I am not saying that you are a crossdreamer or an 'autogynephile'. If you say you are not, and that you have never experiences arousal from 'feminization fantasies', I believe you.

I believe that you are who you say you are. A woman. I don't care what you have between your legs. Your sense of gender is located between your ears, and if your sex identity is female, a woman is what you are.

I am not claiming to be a woman. I present as a man and live as a man. But unlike you I do not think that division between the genders is as clear cut as you seem to believe. This refers as much to the difference between women born women vs. men born men, and women born men vs. men born men. But that's fine. We do not have to agree on this, as long as we respect each others right to explore what sex and gender is all about.

The idea that I should stop linking to your blog or stop tweeting about it because you and I belong to different tribes is against everything learning is about, discussions are about and democracy is about.

Even if you are right -- and the causes of crossdreaming and transsexualism are completely unrelated -- we are still left with a social and cultural context that puts the two into the same box. If you want to convince people that you are right you have to communicate with the rest of us in a constructive manner.

Your blog and some other CT [classic transsexual] blogs have the separatists struggle has the main objective. That's fair. But because of that you constantly comment on the people you consider 'transgender' say and do. If it is OK for you to comment on them, it must be OK for them to reflect on your position.

You say you don't hate people like me; that you just would like to be left alone. Still, in this very blog post you manage to write that "To TGs, it is just a game. It is a game of sex and power, and the forces that drive forced TG inclusion are just as bad as rape." You are actually calling me a rapist. How do you think that feels?

You also indicate that I pay homage to the researchers that invented the AGP concept. If you have really read my blog, you would have seen that I probably have spent more time on criticizing the theories of Blanchard & friends than any CT blogger I know of. I find their theories simplistic, sexist and offensive.

Still, in your last paragraph you repeat some the main ideas from this tradition: 'Autogynephiles are straight men who have a fetish for femininity, while androphiles are self-hating, effeminate gay men.' Blanchard does not like the word fetish, but apart from that this is exactly what he and Bailey believe is true. What does that make you?

By the way: I am not a crossdresser."

(Purple gives another explanation of her standpoint here.)

13 comments:

Vickie said...

Wow. Very fascinating...so far, I've only been aware of this conflict between TS and TG through reading your blog. I had no idea someone was so incredibly venomous over this!

Is Purple's blog indicative of the whole TS community's attitude? I ask because, the impression I'm getting is that her ugliness seems more of personality trait than anything else. She seems like someone who really wants an enemy, and she's created this straw-man version of the TG community to serve as one.

She seems really defensive about how she and hers are "Real Women," while we're a bunch a pathetic sicko fetishists. I can empathize, actually. In trying to wrap my mind around this condition, I felt a strong desire to see it as an obscure "gender variation," and not "just a fetish." In the end, I've decided that perhaps it is a fetish--the FUCKING AWESOMEST FETISH EVER!

This past month, I decided to reveal this secret side of myself to my closest friends, most of whom happen to be women. I explained to them what my feelings were, I showed them my blog, and I answered their questions. The response was universally positive, and not in a "understanding" way, but in a "that is really cool!" way. Granted, these were people who loved me to begin with, so that's not a random sample. But, none of them called me "filthy" like Purple does.

Jack, you're totally right to call her out on the rape allegation. Comparing something to rape, is much like comparing any opponent to Hitler. It's juvenile and narcissistic. I've known and worked with rape victims; no one who had ever experienced being raped, would compare anything so trivial to rape.

I'll conclude by saying that yes, Purple is a Real Woman in ways that I am not; but then again, so are Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann.

Autogyn said...

Sadly, this was how I was introduced to a more definitive understanding of my sexuality. I read the term 'Autogynephilia' and was like "whoa, thats what I am! Yay!"

A few google searches later and I was learning that I'm not a transexual, not 'transgendered' and that I'm actually a good-for-nothing pervert that was invented in order to tear down the transexual community.

Page after page, I couldn't believe that anyone could have so much distaste for people like us. Especially these people! I mean, you would think that of all people that could empathize, it would be transexuals, but i digress...

Its all just irritating, especially if you're like me and you think that you may actually be transexual, in addition to crossdreaming/autogynephilia,

It would be nice if these people focused on the right target.

Kathryn Martin said...

Not the entire TS community is in arms over the distinction between TS and Crossdressers and others along the transgendered line of thought. There is in my view a distinction because transsexuals experience themselves as being in a body that is defective because of the physical sex and the experience of being of a gender not congruent with their physical outward appearance.

The dispute arose because some felt that their transsexual narrative was drowned out by the hype of the inclusiveness of the movement towards a broader now "transgendered" agenda which included a perceived spectrum ranging from each gender pole that is female and male.

It is very difficult for transsexuals to identify with concepts such as autogynephilia because the content of this hypothesis is not reflective of who they are.

I wrote at my blog "The Trans Box" this:

It is very interesting that we really have very little hard science that would permit the identification of any of these afflictions. In my attempts to gain understanding of the differences between the Transsexual and Transgender condition I believe that the following observations are important: There are those who experience a feminine aspect of their person but have no congruency issues. They may be motivated by a whole variety of triggers to represent as a woman. Secondly, there are those who experience incongruency between their inner configuration and their body as a result of a genetic or physiological accident. They must have surgery to correct this defect.

While the former is defined by the persons gender experience, the latter is defined by physical characteristics.

While in the former case gender confusion, if you will, is the primary consideration to understand the person, in the latter the is no gender confusion and achieving congruency between inner configuration and body is. What makes this hard to grasp is that in both cases secondary consequences, that is dysphoria tends to mask the primary aspects. It is for this reason, that I believe the two are often mistaken to be the same.

Most transsexuals have no venomous or rejection agenda at all. The issue for all transsexuals is that it is politcally we need to pursue somewhat different goals and in that the transgendered proponents tend to be overly inclusive and thereby impacting the transsexual narrative.

tg_captioner said...

You know, gender is not the only thing that people think can be "fixed" with surgery because it's a "defect". There are many in the deaf community that hate people that get cochlear implants (because they destroy nerves, and there's nothing wrong with learning ASL, it's the 2nd largest used language).

I don't understand the hate, and the idea that there are true women in male bodies. I can understand being of female mind, but that doesn't make your body a defect.

There's also no reason to hate people like us, there's categories for everyone, and you don't see us attacking transsexuals. Just stop the H8!

Anonymous said...

"Transsexual separatist group, you know, the one arguing that crossdressers and crossdreamers have nothing in common with them, being real women."

They would have you believe that they are 'realer' than real women too.

The transgendered world is very much based upon looks being the key to acceptance. If you transition and you look like a supermodel then you'll have instant acceptance by the public. Regardless of your motivations for transition. If you look like Les Dawson in a frock then no matter how 'real' you say you are you will not be accepted.

Cheryl Sussex said...

It is very sad that out there there is a whole transgender sub group obsessed with telling others, who don't think they same way as they do, that they are in the wrong. They will say that AGP does not exist simply because they have never experienced it themselves. If anyone says hey I'm AGP they are branded. They are told that they have another deep routed problem nothing to do with any transgendered issues they imagine they have. A simple fetish which has been magnified together with a TS wanabee delusion desire. I don't understand why these people who are supposed to be happy with their transition simply move on and get on with their lives. Why make a career out of being a transsexual? After all if they don't relate in any way to AGP why on earth do they seek out and try and destroy others who are simply trying to find their own peace.

Funny how I identify as AGP but don't wear any 'fetish' clothing. I could stand up and easily say I'm a classic transsexual and people would believe me from the way I present myself. Just look at my pics. Perhaps I should, get SRS and then come out as an AGP transitioner.

I'm very interested in the 'Exotic becomes erotic' notion where we desire something so much but it is beyond our ability to possess or experience so the only outlet is via sexual fantasy to compensate. In many ways I feel stuck in this realm unable to move beyond this stage.

Good reply by the way Jack, good post too. Keep it up.

Cheryl Sussex said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
James said...

This is quite funny actually. A whole transgender subgroup humiliating a whole majority of transgenders and disregarding their true gender fluidity by calling them as perverted or fetishistic men.
This seems to be a worse form of discrimination than that faced by us from the mainstream cis-gendered community.
Gender historically has never been a binary issue unlike that created by the west. You can indeed have a mixture of male and female traits in you and not be an outright transsexual woman, but be simply transgendered. Which is fine and totally normal natural variation.

I also think the terminology of "man" is inappropriate. Categorizing feminine and gender fluid males as "man" does not sound quite right because historically, only masculine males were men.

Anne said...

Hi Jack,

Nice post. Long time no visit. Happily I find your posts, and interesting POV's, quite refreshing and objective in their analysis of some very complex issues.

True to form you have done a great job in high lighting our prospective differences. And while you and I are different, we can easily find wide areas of agreement, by simply recognizing, acknowledging and carefully examining our differences.

As a very late arrival to this sometime very heated war of words, I can assure you that I have been attacked and pilloried by both sides and that MOST obnoxious, belligerent and down right TYRANICAL MIDDLE.

I mean if I were a well adjusted and happy heterosexual cross dresser/dreamer, I think that I too would be offended by the PC demands of the GAYS in their dominance of the LGBTQITQ Agenda.

In answer to Vickie's question..."Is Purple's blog indicative of the whole TS community's attitude?" The answer is NO. You are correct in your assumption that Purple's attitude is her's alone. although sadly, there are a few others, who do share her extremist, hateful views.

Kathryn Martin offers a pretty fair analysis of why there exists such a high level of hostiity.

I consider it to be simple bone headed ego. You can find a fair example of what happens when the anger boils over here, (http://commontericommentary.blogspot.com/2011/01/non-op-transsexuals.html). And frankly that really was relatively mild.

Vickie said...

Anne--I did some research, first at Kathryn's blog, and then at the list of blogs she follows--and discovered that I was right in guessing that much of Purple Girl's attack has more to do with her personality than the TS community's views. I mean, at one point, she speculates that TGs are part of a Freemason/Illuminati conspiracy to control TS's...so.....yeah.....

In other news, Purple Girl is now the unrequited love of my life. She is my everything.

Christy Martins said...

This is very timely Jack. After reading yr tweet, I got into an online shootout with Evangalina Carters. Predictably, she completely dismissed my words in a hateful and mean spirited fashion.

There is also Ashley Love:

http://transformingmedia.blogspot.com/

She is full of daggers for transgendered people:

“If a man gets satisfaction putting on a dress and using the woman’s restroom, who am I to judge him? I may not feel safe if I was in that bathroom when he was in there, but whatever strokes one’s boat, I think, or maybe he should use the man’s bathroom, just to be respectful. So some of my trans feminist friends plead not to include the transvestites in our mission, but would we really want to start a war with transvestite men just because we have nothing in common with them?”

and this...

“I’m not one of those conservative TS women who is phobic of CDs and TVs because of the theory that they are heterosexual or homosexual MEN who have a sexual fetish, want attention and invade TS space…”

and this...

“Humans have a instinct about them, a sixth sense, they internally register what someone’s gender essence is when they meet them. I will not blame the slow advancement of transsexual women on the men who like to dress up for what ever reason (but will blame it partly on the refusal of some trans gatekeeper’s refusal to initiate internal conversations about this controversial topic in our community that many TS women want to talk about!), and then say they are transsexual, which may confuse society’s education of the entire trans community, which includes transvestites. They can express themselves however they want, and people should just let them do what ever pleases them. But I do believe in DIFFERENT, BUT EQUAL."

So what this amounts to is: 1) CDs are men in dresses 2) TVs are men in dresses, and 3) late-transitioners are just CDs or TVs that have conditioned themselves past the point of no return.

And she worries about sharing the bathroom with any of the above…

Bitch...

Zoe Suzanna said...

I would encourage you not to waste your energy debating someone like purple. I feel her ego is very fragile and feels complete only when attacking others.

You would serve yourself and the ones you love more by working on improving yourself, spiritually, emotionally, mentally and physically.

Purple does more harm than good and I would encourage you and others to just ignore her.

Jack Molay said...

Purple has made some comments to comments made to this post over at her own blog: http://purplespeaks.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/jacks-guests/

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